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TOR Lore- Pulling a Bindo

Published by under Lore on Sep. 22. 2011.


Jolee Face

Back in my day we didn’t get no stinking Dark Side points just for falling in love!


Not long ago, the developers at BioWare hinted at the fact that pursuing romance options in The Old Republic will result in the player receiving dark side points. Almost immediately afterwards a debate broke out on the forums between those who didn’t agree with that decision and those who attempted to defend the developers’ choice on the matter. Those who argued against it pointed to well known Jedi relationships, such as the one between Revan and Bastilla, as proof that Jedi can be in a relationship without succumbing to the dark side. The opposing faction was quick to respond with the classic example of Anakin and Padme as evidence of how the relationship of a Jedi can be a huge determining factor of that Jedi falling into darkness. Today we will take a look at the history of the “no relationships” rule within the Jedi in an attempt to make sense of BioWare’s decision on this matter.

Throughout the Jedi Order’s history, their stance on forming relationships has changed somewhat. At times it is tolerated, at times it is expressly forbidden, but one thing that must be understood is that it has always been discouraged. The reason for this is simple, the attachment that is formed through such relationships can both stir powerful emotions within the Jedi, and possibly put them in a situation where they will be forced to choose between their duty and the person, or people, that they love. Jedi are expected to put the good of the galaxy above all else, even their own lives. Yet it becomes a different matter when the person who suffers is someone that you love. This is true even in our own lives. It is hard to weigh the consequences when you are choosing between billions of people you have never even met and a single person who you love, a person who you would willingly sacrifice your own life to keep safe. Not so say that no Jedi would be able to put the good of the galaxy as a whole above those they love, but to expect every Jedi to be able to make that sacrifice is unreasonable.

There is no emotion, there is peace. This is the first tenet of the Jedi code and has particular importance when talking about Jedi relationships. It is important to note that this tenet does not forbid a Jedi from having emotions. That would be impossible and would hamper a Jedi’s intuition. What this means instead is that a Jedi is supposed to be the master of their emotions, not the other way around. Emotions must be explored and understood. Giving into your emotions is often the first sign that you are walking down a darker path and it is the job of the council, and the Order at large, to discourage this. It is expected that every Jedi will, at one point or another, have to face the darkness that lives within them. The purpose of this tenet is to train the Jedi for these eventual conflicts so that they may act with a clear mind and follow the path of the light. This can be hard enough in and of itself and to be able to do so when the right choice may end up bringing harm upon someone you love is difficult for even a Master Jedi.

There are times when love can pull a Jedi back from darkness. Just look at how Revan pulls Bastilla back into the light, or how Luke redeems Vader at the end of RotJ. But far too often we are presented with cases where the loss of a loved one can lead to powerful emotions that can swing a Jedi towards a dark path. It will always be a topic of debate; both within the Jedi Order and among the fans of Star Wars itself. What will you be willing to do? Will you sacrifice your chance at romance within TOR in order to follow a purely light path? Will you “pull a Bindo,” putting the wishes of the order aside to follow your heart? We can be sure that there will be proponents of each side but it really comes down to is one simple thing. How do you want your TOR story to unfold?

What do you think about Dark Side points for Jedi who pursue romance within TOR? Does it make sense? Do you completely disagree with the decision? Leave a comment at let us know what you think!

It’s worth mentioning that in Luke Skywalker’s New Jedi Order, marriage and raising a family is common and not really discouraged. However, as this game takes place during the original Jedi Order, we must look at its policies when discussing the romance options and any possible Dark Side points that you may gain for pursuing them.

13 responses so far

13 Responses to “TOR Lore- Pulling a Bindo”

  1. Galen Stoneon 22 Sep 2011 at 12:29 pm

    For my 2 credits, I think the debate and passion on the forums is ‘working as intended’. The Jedi Order couldnt agree on this issue, what makes people think that us mortals are going to? Bioware needs to stick to its guns and portray the Jedi Order as they have been given license to. One thing though, remember that while DS points can be gained, it doesn’t do more than reduce your LS points if we can take KOTOR 1&2 as a guide. You won’t automatically fall to the darkside, its a slippery slope but Anakin took a while to fall, and consciously made his decisions throughout.

    Giving into hate and anger with the Sand People over his mother, the inability to control his passion for Padme, and eventually choosing Padme over the Jedi. This didn’t happen all at once, this was something he had been struggling with, and choosing poorly regarding, for his entire adolescent and adult life.

    That will not be the case for everyone, and even if the storyline is compelling enough to make it a tough choice, that’s what we are going to play the game for, right?After all, what would a Jedi be without that boundary and the temptation to cross it? It is the struggle that defines a Jedi.

    I intend at some point to be play a Jedi class, and I intend to explore the romance option. I know that it will be difficult perhaps, but we wouldn’t play a game that was too easy, would we?

  2. Eklinaaron 22 Sep 2011 at 7:56 pm

    I think having all romance give DS points is too simplistic. The light side and dark side are all part of the same Force, and there are light side ways and dark side ways of doing things. Perhaps a manipulative seduction would give DS points, and a kind and affectionate act gives LS points. I agree with Galen Stone, it shouldn’t be an easy thing for a light sider to maintain a romance. Bioware could do this well, such as write in a story where you’re faced with two choices, one where many innocent people are harmed but you shield your romanced companion from harm, and another where you save many innocent people, but your romanced companion is harmed. The latter is clearly in keeping with the Jedi code; in this case, the Jedi has developed romantic feelings but doesn’t give in to them when the scope of the situation becomes far bigger than those feelings. In the former, he gives in to those feelings, allowing them to lead his actions, and many people are harmed as a result. It’s a messy situation, and making the right choice is hard. This would be a compelling story. Too often in Star Wars, LS/DS choices are too cut and dry. Making all romance inherently DS would be too cut and dry.

  3. Jason Tayloron 22 Sep 2011 at 9:12 pm

    Another great piece of lore mixed into this topic of romance and the Jedi. I do agree that the example of Luke, being able to use his love for his father to help save him. The idea of romances or attachments being bad, are well founded in the Star Wars Universe.

    Yes, Anakin and Padme’s love did bring about the twins Luke and Leia, but it came at a huge price. I also think that Luke only helped to bring balance back. It was solely on the shoulders of Vader/Anakin to bring balance back to the Force. He had to make the choice. Now it could be said his love for Luke, snapped him back towards the Light. If this is the case, could it be said his love, all be it possessive in nature, led him to choose the Dark side?

    While I do think love is a good thing, whether in Star Wars or our own galaxy. I also believe we can become obsessed for something we call “love” and that is where the danger can be found. The obsession might start innocent and with all good intentions, but if it is something that consumes you and impacts your life negatively, that is the Dark side. This obsessive hunger for power, that seed to be solely an emotional need is what the early order feared.

    Just my two cents 🙂
    Keep the lore coming!!

  4. pwnttothemaxon 23 Sep 2011 at 6:01 am

    i support the decision 100%. the whole reason the Sith and Jedi are different is because one embraces emotion and one embraces serenity. and love is one of the most powerful emotions.

    hi5 for Bioware sticking to lore!

  5. ArsonRaptureon 14 Oct 2011 at 10:59 pm

    I agree with Jolee Bindo’s take on things. I think it would be ridiculous for the Jedi to restrict romance on an absolute level, being that it is inherently foolish to apply an absolute rule about something so non-absolute, and also that it is hypocritical, being that the Jedi do not deal in absolutes. Also, romantic relationships are literally a need for the majority of human beings, biologically and emotionally speaking. Just because a need is emotional instead of material does not make it biologically invalid. It is like telling human Jedi to go without food, because their hunger pains can cause selfishness. It isn’t right. I think wisely and carefully assessing each romantic situation on an individual basis is the way to go.

  6. caton 18 Oct 2011 at 7:19 pm

    Well according to the information I have found it is not actually following lore as Corellian Jedi had the exception to the rule. They for the most part had no problem with the Order when they fell in love and got married. Whether that is because of the stance Corellia puts on family or something else, isn’t entirely known.

    Though this exception can cause a split in the Order as how do you explain to some that some have the exception and others don’t. This needs to be addressed and explored.

  7. Joshroomson 19 Oct 2011 at 2:13 am

    Over the course of history the Jedi Order has had different stances on the whole “love and marriage” thing. It has never been wholly approved of, but at times they were more lax on the fact that members had relationships. At this time in their history the Jedi are incredibly “no relationship”, and just participating is seen as forbidden. Over the history of the Jedi Order many Jedi fell to the Dark Side due to personal relationships, hence their stance on the issue. Obviously many Jedi had their own stance on the Code though and didn’t necessarily follow it to the letter. The Order had it’s stance on things but it was up to the individual Jedi to choose their own path in life.

    And as far as the Corellian Jedi go, let’s be frank for a moment. The whole “Corellian Jedi” thing was made up for Corran Horn’s background and the fact that his father was a Jedi. There is no mention of these Corellian Jedi during the time that SWTOR takes place in.

  8. caton 19 Oct 2011 at 5:21 am

    According to this quote, that would be wrong. It was not just made up for Corran Horn”s background.

    “However, it appears that some Jedi might have been granted the right to marry, not as a special case, but as a norm. Several Corellian Jedi (Keiran Halcyon during the Old Republic, and Corran Horn in the time of the New Republic) were allowed to marry and raise children without repercussion. Whether this was due to an agreement between the Jedi and the planetary government—Corellia is known for its family-centric culture—or purely personal choices made against the Jedi Code is not known, except in the case of Nejaa Halcyon, who married his wife secretly without the approval of the Council. Corellian Jedi often had many other noticeable differences from the traditional Jedi ways, such as in clothing”

    So you will notice Keiran Halcyon was during the Old Republic time.

  9. caton 19 Oct 2011 at 5:27 am

    And also everyone seems to have forgotten the Grand Master of the Order at this particular time has a child. I seriously think that the child was just a figament of her imagination.

  10. caton 19 Oct 2011 at 5:30 am

    and his name is Theron Shan in case someone didn’t know that.

  11. Joshroomson 19 Oct 2011 at 5:54 am

    I know that exists, and I don’t disagree with you on that point, but the whole reason it was created was because of Corran Horn. Keiran Halcyon was only written into the Star Wars universe after Corran Horn was created, Corran is actually a descendant of Keiran. I’m not saying the whole “Corellian Jedi” issue is not lore, but it is a very loose part of it that is really only brought up in reference to that particular family. It does mention that they are numerous, but I have never read or seen anything that refers to specific Corellian Jedi outside of the Halcyon bloodline.

    Satele Shan is a perfect example of what I was saying earlier about each Jedi having to make their own decision about how strictly they choose to adhere to the code. The Jedi Order as a group has their stance on the issue, but it is up o the individual Jedi to choose what they believe is right. Satele, as the GrandMaster, has to put her own personal beliefs aside and encourage what the Order as a whole deems best. Remember that the Grandmaster is not really the unquestioned leader of the Jedi Order. Their position is really more akin to “First among equals”. Their vote or opinion does not necessarily mean any more than anyone else on the Jedi Council, they are simply looked to as a leader in situations where one person is needed to be the face of the Jedi, and when a decision cannot be reached by majority vote. Despite the fact that she was willing to engage in a relationship whe gave up her son because she knew that she could not continue as a Jedi if she chose to raise him herself.

    For the record I plan on pursuing the romance options myself, despite the Dark Side points I will get because of it. That is the choice I choose to make as a Jedi, others may choose differently. The whole reason why Jedi gain Dark Side points because of pursuing romance is because the Order as a whole frowns upon it. Just being in a relationship doesn’t mean you will fall, but over the years it has been proven time and time again that it can start a person down that path if they cannot handle the intense feelings that come with being in a relationship.

  12. caton 19 Oct 2011 at 6:08 am

    See that is my problem with the Jedi Order. They think they know what is best for every single Jedi and then if the Jedi has a child they think they know what is best for that chid. I disagree. The ones that know what is best for the child is the parents and as long as the parents are not taking advantage of the child then what right do they have to take the child. I love to see them try that with me but then again that probably why I will not be a Jedi because the Jedi Order is afraid of love.

    As far as dark side points, I disagree with that also. Falling in love should not automatically give you dark side points.. It should be based on your actions and what you do not if you fall in love with someone.

    I seriously doubt the Sith will be given light side points for having a relationship so why is the Jedi given dark side points just for falling in love. How is that balanced? It’s not. The Sith don’t get lightside points for it so neither should the Jedi get automatic dark side points.

    The Order only frowns on it because they have failed to teach the Jedi how to deal with conflicting emotions whether it is love or something else a Jedi has to deal with in a given situation.

  13. swtorcrafteron 19 Oct 2011 at 6:53 am

    Thank you all for taking the time to stop and give us your thoughts on Joshrooms articles, much appreciated!